Speaker 1 (00:01):
No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team Os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Barry, welcome back to the Team OS podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Super excited to be here,

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Ethan, I was really happy to have you as one of the first guests on the show in the traditional format. I'm really happy to sit down in person. It's a whole different feel and I love it. Totally.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yeah, so intimate, right? It's just casual, intimate, it's great.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah. And apparently, according to John, who is masterminding, all this video and audio capture sounds amazing too. Does

Speaker 3 (00:41):
It? Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Shout out to John, but I'm going to ask you the same question I asked you off the top of the last one, and you may give me the same answer or a different one, and you won't even know whatever's true in the moment. It's what's going to occur to you. I know

Speaker 3 (00:54):
It's kind of scary

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Actually. What's a must have characteristic of a high performing team?

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Oh, pivot. Yeah. You got to be able to pivot. The industry changes so quickly, and that's both the blessing and the curse of real estate. And so being able to pivot, adapt to what's going on around you and monetize it, make the most of it. I just think it's vital because if not, you get a fixed way of doing business that works for a season and then it doesn't. So that's, for me, I kind of like making money, so I want to keep that going. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Awesome. And from a personal standpoint, pivot maybe in leadership style over the years or, I mean it's hard to separate personal growth from professional growth, but in that zone, do you have any examples that come to mind in terms of a pivot where there's maybe a moment or an instance or an occurrence and you're like, I can't do it that way anymore?

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, it's an incredible subject and I think one aspect of the pivot would be how I deal with people. And one of the things that I learned that I needed to start doing was that it was actually kind to be upfront in a respectful way with people instead of making them guess or being passive aggressive for example, but to be very clear that they are not meeting my expectations. And because I like making people happy, I kind of allow them to make their own demise. And so when they join an agent on my team joins, I'll say to them, what are your expectations for yourself? And then they tell me what they want and then I ask permission to hold them accountable to what it is they say that they want. And so by doing that, I'm using their dream for what success looks like for them.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
And then I've been given an opportunity to speak into their life because candidly, I think sometimes we assume just because we have broker or manager on the door that we have the license to speak into others' lives and what direction they're going to go. And candidly, that's just not the truth. That's why they walk out of our offices and roll their eyes like, oh, this freaking guy, I want to have an impact. And so the one aspect is me changing how I deal with them. But then the other is adaptability to them, some of them in the discussion of Can I hold you accountable? Some of them need a lot of help, others want a lot more flexibility. And so having that dance in a conversation to where, how can I help you help yourself is another aspect of this adaptability. But it all is centered on communication.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, communication is it, I feel like so many problems start and problems are avoided. Good

Speaker 3 (03:26):
And bad communication. I'm telling you it's such a big deal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Who have you given permission to hold you accountable?

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Oh man, that's a great question. So I have three mentors in my life that they, first of all, lemme say this, I don't like being held accountable. I don't, because I'm a self starter. I push myself really hard anyway, to the point that sometimes I'll get frustrated with myself. I don't need somebody saying, did you do this? Did you do that? However, there's one oppo employee that actually asked me recently, Hey, I see you're trying to change your diet. Would you like me to check on you? It's not, what'd you do what you didn't do? Jeff Broer, amazing dude and smart guy. And he'll just text me every Friday, Hey, how are you doing on your macros? It's uncomfortable, but I enjoy it because it's a discussion. So it depends on the topic, but yeah, multiple

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Areas. Awesome. In the other episode, you and I recorded together. Thank you again for that. Yeah, it was a pleasure. I think it was almost an hour long. We didn't do as much as I wanted to because we had a lot of ground to cover, and I had a lot of questions. And as we said before we even started this one, we could talk for hours and hours and hours. It's true. I really love to spend 10 minutes or so in this whole zone of your team became obviously a dominant presence inside the brokerage. And at a certain point, you and the other owners of the brokerage made a decision to merge the rest of the agents into the team. That's one big zone like that. Why? And then the how, what next? And then you've also acquired another brokerage and folded that into the team. And I think both of those moves are something that a lot of people will wonder about, either out of curiosity alone driving me, but then also practically like, oh, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about that. So let's start with the growth of your own team inside the brokerage. And at what point did the conversation start around Should this be a team ridge?

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to add another layer of complexity to this. It's my family. We own the brokerage. And so I had a third of the agents on my own team that I had recruited and I had grown and it super profitable. But what I saw coming was a shift where I had to optimize life changes in my life, market changes. There was a lot of compelling reasons to start to make changes. And so what we had to do was we had to have a meeting of the minds is how can we merge our staff, our resources in a way that optimizes what we do have and cut out waste, also have one central message as an organization. And so margins were cut in the negotiations like, Hey, if this happens, I'll give you this. And then they would counter back. And it's honestly, I think it's worse or not worse as a bad, it's more difficult when it's family because it's family. But as we did that, I became an owner as well. And looking back, we were able to streamline our training in a way that we have never had the performance from our agents that we have now because it's one central message instead of these confusing business models. And then which has increased profitability, retention has gotten better because the people feel like they're a part of something. I could go on and on of all the positive impacts of merging forces,

Speaker 2 (07:13):
How did this get communicated to the agents on both sides? Those are within the team and those outside the team, but in the brokerage.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
So that actually to me is something I'm particularly proud of. The way that I was able to negotiate the margins, we actually didn't impact the agent's commissions. So this was a paper transition. We actually didn't have to make any major announcements. Agents don't like change. What's going to happen if Barry changes, he's not around anymore. I knew I was going to be around, so we made a paper merging. We did change a lot of processes. And so that was the change the agents felt. But I didn't go to them and say, Hey, we've got this major merger and acquisition, be ready for all this. And I felt like that was a really bad plan. And so we worked with the margins that we had, and I'm a big believer that I want to optimize. Time is so important to me. I'm a creative, I'm a writer. I work, I'm making technology products. And so for me, I wanted to have an arrangement that was profitable and fair, but also allowed me the freedom to follow my passions.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
And so the observation was we have lot of duplicated effort inside your team and outside software in the brokerage, we

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Had two follow up boss instances. For example, separate follow up boss accounts, merge, those separate call action accounts, separate YPO accounts, separate. Everything was separate. And so this merging in a way that made sense for the both of us turned out to be fantastic, and it allowed us an environment where we felt comfortable buying another brokerage.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
So thank you for the segue. Got you,

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Bro. Appreciate

Speaker 2 (08:51):
It. So how did that come about? I mean, because are a number of unique factors there. I mean, obviously there's something about that brokerage that attracted those agents in the first place, whether it was you and your team, but your reflection of the brokerage as well. The fact that all of those folks could kind of be brought together is a lot easier, I think, than bringing people from outside. Is it an independent,

Speaker 3 (09:15):
Independent brokerage

Speaker 2 (09:17):
That makes it a little bit easier? I think it

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Does. What makes it a lot easier is I help my competition and not so that I can recruit them. Actually, this particular brokerage, I had helped on several occasions and done training on lead conversion and win their agents. I had two instances where their agents contacted me offline and said, Hey, I'm leaving, yada, yada, yada. I'd like to join forces with you. I'm sorry, your broker trusted me. To me, it's an ethics violation for me to go in and train your people and then you come and recruit me. And that's how I do things. And that's why my market trusts me to go to their events and they know Barry's going to treat me right? So there's a trust there. The broker had a life change business change dramatically. When rates first went up, we were able to leverage our relationship with anywhere who owns Better Homes and Gardens, and they have a fantastic mergers and acquisitions department.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
They went through the p and l, they went through what it looks like financially, whether or not they wanted to be involved. And of course, I can't say whether they were or not, but having them, their money, their brains and their process, they facilitated. And as long as we hit our numbers, they're happy as can be. And because we're a team, heh, so we're giving the opportunities to our agents at scale, we crush our numbers. That's never been a problem. So it worked out and we're doing more, we realize, wait a second. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Somebody else's money. 30 agents. Yes, please. Yeah, it was just fantastic.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, cool. Talk about that human side of it. How did this get communicated internally and how did it get communicated to those folks that were coming alongside y'all

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Sales meeting? We announced that we were merging and a lot of concern, honestly, there was a lot of concern because we were going up in size by about a third. We're giving leads to our agents, am I going to lose my leads? And so I can think of three instances where agents had significant concerns and I remained empathetic. I listened and I tried to coach them through it, and two out of the three stayed with us. The one that left didn't leave right away, and she only left that I know of because she said she got a better opportunity somewhere else. But we remained friends, but we really didn't have any fallout other than that,

Speaker 2 (11:48):
You don't need to be specific, but of the concerns that were brought to you by these agents, were they things that you had already considered or were some of them like, ah, I never thought about it that way.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
They were not only things we considered, but things we spoke to, but I think that when you're listening to someone talk, I don't know the math maybe, but it's a very small percentage of what the person remembers. They remember how you made them feel. I don't remember what you said. And this instance was no different. So we just did a really good job of communicating. And when someone expressed concern, we said, look, you're valued. Here's how we're valuing you and here's what we're going to continue to do. And I would always jokingly say, look, leads. It's a great problem to have. If I don't have enough leads, all I got to do is turn dials, spend a little bit more money. Really, this is great. I hope I run out of leads. For me, not a problem.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
And not only do people not remember everything, I mean you say it once and you say it twice, you need to say it in a different channel. You need to say it in a different way for people to get into it. The other thing too, in a dynamic like this is that people will hear what you're saying, it'll set off the panic button maybe, and they can't get past anything else besides that. It's like, I just hear the alarm. This sounds dangerous.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
So I had a couple of team leaders eight years ago, I was experimenting with a model of scale with squad leaders where basically middle level management, I gave them too much and they left with my agents, and some agents left because other agents were leaving. They were like, well, if they left, I guess I'm going to leave too. And I learned from that agents, the market's already so volatile when their home base feels shaky and scary. I think that they look for reasons. They're always being recruited if they're good anyway, so they're looking for safety and security. And so if you're going to merge your business with another one and then merge your business with another one, you really have to be kit gloves. You got to be really gentle with your people and understand that they're scared and you can talk 'em through it.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, it feels like you have some interest and appetite for this. Is this a new thing on your radar?

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, well, I mean, yes, it's really expensive and hard to recruit agents, and so if you can do it by business dealings, I'm kind of obsessed with it, to be honest with you. And I sincerely hope that nobody leaves the business during this hard market. However, I think logic tells me that there's going to be a lot of people that don't make it through, and we are primed to be a good partner to them and strike business deals with them that are profitable for them. And for us, it's no different than in 2011, I knew low rates and low home prices were not going to happen soon. So I bought one house a month with other people's money. I wasn't rich. I borrowed $2 million, but my family changed financially forever as a result of that. So you've got to take the market conditions and look for that opportunity.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Profitability, you've used that term a number of times. Obviously, it is the necessary ingredient to have the privilege to continue doing what we're doing when you're in much more intimate environments than something with microphones being

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Processed, this is pretty intimate, bro,

Speaker 2 (15:29):
For what it is. It's very much so. But what are a couple of keys for people that are figuring it out in a tough market, and where are some people still hung up?

Speaker 3 (15:42):
So I really want to speak to those people because if your business is based off of your salespeople talking to customers, people, and you're only making money when the leads or the people have clarity on what their needs are. So to bring it down a step further, if I can only close a lead that calls me and says, will you help me find a house? That's what I just said, then you're going to struggle to scale in a hard market and in a good market, this is a confusing process. Having clarity of what you want is not something that's attained overnight as a business. Fundamentally, you have got to learn how to talk to people that start the conversation with, I don't know, I'm waiting a year. If you can monetize that person, you'll never run out. It's like, I like studying business models, and I don't know if you know of, there's a East coast gas station called Wawa, and I used to go to seven 11 all the time, but Wawa, they have free hand sanitizer, free air for your tires.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
There's no doors on the bathroom. This sounds silly. I know you're like, where are you going with this, Barry? But their business, they have an amazing sandwich shop, and people go there to get gas. They have to, they're like, well, I'll go in and go to the bathroom. It's a nice environment. 50% of their revenue is off of food sales. So they're just bringing people in droves. And that's what you can do. You can bring in casual, interested people and monetize them the same way. Gas stations monetize traffic to sell food and become profitable businesses. Businesses that do what I just said are going to be just fine through this period of time. We're not selling vacuums, we're selling houses, and people still want a house roof over their head. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah. Really good. I like the analogy too. I've also heard that they're famous for their coffee as well. Coffee is fantastic, which would be something to bring people into the facility. It's interesting too, the way I see a lot of parallels there. Now you have me thinking about the gas stations that are consistently well lit, approximately clean. There's no flickering, a bulb overhead that's like, I don't

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Feel that's seven 11. If you feel like they're doing you a solid, when you have to use their restroom at Wawa, it's like they want you there, and that's why I go there.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, totally. So it's hospitality at some level. It's an invitation to do more than the transaction. The transaction is credit card, fill up the gas, Nope, drive away, no interaction, no conversation, no opportunity to experience your hospitality, except maybe whatever the setting is out at the pumps. I like the analogy.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Well, they have Tesla superchargers there as well, so they're bringing the Teslas over, so they're really thinking about increasing traffic. And we need to think as business owners the same way with our websites. And that's why we have signs on the door. You got to think about all those things.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah. The other thing I appreciate about the way that you're talking about talking to people is that you're meeting them where they are. And instead of, I know this is gross and oversimplified, but instead of saying, Hey, are you ready for what I have? It's opening up a conversation and helping them see the world in a different way, really getting them to understand their own needs and wants. They think they want something or they think they have a limitation. And you'd ask a couple why layers, and tell me more about that. Why is that the

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Case? And that's servant leadership. So if old school leadership is, I'm going to stand on top of the mountain, yell to all the people at the bottom, Hey, I'm up here. Come on, get up here. And that's what agents are doing. Do you know what you want yet? Come on up. I'm ready. And what I'm advocating is you go down to the bottom of the mountain and say, look, I know you have no idea. I'm going to put my arm around you. We're going to walk out this process. And not that this is a lead conversion podcast, but I will tell you something. When leads start off the conversation with, I don't know what I want yet, and we say, I understand we're going to meet. I'm glad you don't know what you want. Let's meet consistently. Those people end up buying if they get approved within three to four months. So when people ask me, how long does it take to convert a Google lead? I say, well, let me ask you, are you going to be involved in them figuring it out? If not, it's going to take you a year. They're going to take a year to figure it out. Or are you going to start blocking and tackling their problems for them? If so, three to four months. And this scales fantastically.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
And so that's baked into training across more agents than say, 18 months ago.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah. And I can only imagine what that does.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
It's been fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. The clarity of messages, and we've got a leadership, an entrepreneurial ownership leadership culture, and now we've got agents that are kind of taking this message and they're building their own businesses off of it. They're building teams under my team as a result of what we're doing. And it's working fantastically.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Man, you just gave me a topic for another episode. Let's do it. Building teams within your team. I know that that's happening obviously within your team, and I think in our first conversation you referred to what a joy it was for you to see that happening.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
So much fun.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
And I know it's happening in some other team models as well. And so I look forward to that conversation. And Barry, I've already asked you all three of my this or that question, so I made up a new one for you.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Oh, geez. I'm nervous

Speaker 2 (21:19):
And I don't intend for it to be politically charged in any way. All right.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Let's go

Speaker 2 (21:24):
New York or la

Speaker 3 (21:29):
I'm going to go with New York because I went to the most amazing jazz bar that, I forget the name right now, but it's like a hundred year old jazz bar where the best have always been. And I went and dude, I got emotional. The music was so good. It was like a rising star night. And that was just a really, I feel like I got a flavor of New York in a new way. When I'm in LA I'm at conferences. And so I haven't really got to enjoy probably a similar culture, cultural experience. So maybe I would respond differently, but that's where I'm going Totally

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Fair. And every place has its strengths, and I just thought that was fun. Obviously an East coast guy, but there's also,

Speaker 3 (22:14):
I love la. I mean, I love California. All the places we get to go because of our work. It's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, I've spent a lot of time in this hotel though.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
That's all I ever do. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Barry, appreciate you continu success, and I can't wait to find out more about the teams growing inside your team.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Rich. Me too. I'm excited about it.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Thanks for checking out this episode of Team Os. For email exclusive insights every week, sign up@realestateteamos.com.