Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do I find my operations person? That's the question that Camilla Rivera gets most when she's talking with real estate team leaders. So that's the entire focus of our conversation. In this episode, Camilla is the Chief operating Officer at Lori Finkelstein Reader Real Estate, a team. She joined more than a decade ago as a part-time assistant and she's coaching operations and ops staffing with real estate teams across North America. When do you hire your first operations person? Where are some places I should look to find them? What characteristics or skills or experiences should I be looking for? How do I pay them? I just use a virtual assistant instead. Get answers to all these questions and more. Right now with Camilla Rivera on Real Estate Team os,

Speaker 2 (00:43):
No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team Os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Camilla, you are kind enough to join us for a Tech 10 episode recently to talk about the evolution over the past decade of your team's tech stack to add visibility, efficiency, agent success, et cetera. We've got a new topic this time. Welcome back to Real Estate team os.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Ethan.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, I love what you're up to. As I said before, I love your tenure in the role. I love that you're coaching and working with operations leaders across North America. I assume maybe a few of 'em are Canadian. I'm not sure. So I'll say North America. So we're going to get into how to find operations leaders and a lot of other things kind of related to that. But where we're going to start is where we always start on the show, which is a must have characteristic of a high performing team. What comes to mind for you?

Speaker 3 (01:43):
For me really comes optimism. You have to be optimistic about what's possible about remain positive because you're going to run into a lot of challenges. Ultimately we're in business and there's always going to be obstacles unless you stop growing. And so being able to remain optimistic about the business, about the future I think is super important. Not just for yourself but for the people you're surrounded by.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
There is absolutely truth to mind over matter. I mean it's not what happens to us, it's how we respond to what happens to us at the same time. On the far other end, I'm sure you and I have both been in a space where someone is overly optimistic, let's say. How do you strike that balance?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, I think it's important to acknowledge the challenges that you're facing in any given moment and to talk through them and possible solutions, possible obstacles, but also especially as a leader, people are looking to you and you're really setting the tone of the environment and really giving people the space to talk through their frustrations or what challenges they've been having, but being able to bring them back to, okay, well this is what's in our control. We got to remind ourselves why we do what we do and continue on our journey.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
How did you wind up in real estate when you look back at now being COO of a successful real estate team, being with the team for over a decade 15 years ago, could you see that coming?

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Absolutely not so it's a funny story. I actually was in school to be a teacher, special education teacher, and I knew I had done a marketing internship at one point. I was a server at night and I said, I just want to try a different industry, just get a little more experience on my resume. I knew it was important to have a few internships and experience is something that people are always looking for. So I had reached out to Lori at that time and I had asked her, I grew up in the area where she's done business her entire life, so I knew who she was and I said, are you looking for someone part-time? I'm willing to do anything. I really just want to get my foot in the door and learn more about the business and see how I can help. And so I started out as an assistant to the top agent at that time, Matt Weiner, funny story.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
He loves to say that I started in the mail room and now I'm here. And then I started working for him and about six months in, he didn't have enough work for me to do at that time. And so Lori, of course she was growing and she always needed more help. And so I started helping both of them and then within a few months she's like, okay, I'm taking her over full time. And so I started working with her. I was still going to school and then I was getting ready to go do my clinicals. So I had put in a three months notice. I was very clear. I knew when that time was going to start and so I let her know my experience has been great. I had been there about a year and a half. I had taken on a lot of responsibility, so that's why I had felt just organically that I wanted to give them as much notice as possible.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
I don't think any of us ever expected that to happen. It just kind of happened. And at the time it was Thanksgiving and Lori was on a cruise and the director of operations at that time was going through a lot of personal struggles in her life and she just decided that she could no longer make the commitment to the role. And she walked out that day while Lori's on a cruise. And so Lori called me freaking out and she's like, what am I going to do the business? And I said, I've been doing her entire job the entire time. The only thing I don't know how to do is payroll. Mind you, at that time we had six employees, so payroll is not a major thing. And so she taught me payroll in all of five minutes. I'm not kidding. And then she walked out the door and I told Lori, you're fine.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
I know how to do everything. You're okay. Enjoy your trip and come back. And then when she came back, she offered me the opportunity of director of operations and it took some time, Ethan, because that's not what I was prepared for. That's not what I had thought I would be doing. And it was a big role at that time. I was doing the job, but I didn't have the responsibility. People weren't looking to me for that type of leadership. And so after many conversations with my family with Lori, I realized it was a unique opportunity and I don't know when an opportunity that would come around again. And I also said I could always go back to teaching. People always need teachers. And so I took that opportunity and the rest is history. 10 years later here I am.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Love it. I love that story so much for a variety of reasons and I'm sure we'll kind of wind up reflecting back on aspects of it that we didn't necessarily get into detail on as we project onto other people's businesses and situations a little bit. And you kind of roll in other people's stories as well. But the thing that I liked so much about it was one, your initiative, first and foremost, the idea that you're going to proactively reach out and to your point, everyone needs help, but at a certain period what we need over here, we don't need as much over here. So let's essentially a cross training type situation and that exposure to multiple people, multiple personalities, multiple approaches to the exact same steps in a business process was really preparing you for that moment where the business absolutely needed an operations leader. Before I ask the big question that you get asked all the time, I'd love for you to characterize Lori Finkelstein reader real estate as it is today. However you like, market size, structure, culture, whatever you'd like to share about the organization just for context for folks would be great.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
I'd love to just quickly run through our core values because they really do give a clear picture of who we are, what we stand for, great human contributor, customer-centric, own the outcome, and really making sure that people who join our organization are in it to build a big life but also care about giving back and care about each individual consumer's experience, right? Because sometimes you can become a little bit, you do this every day, you forget how it's such a big deal for every single buyer, every single seller. And we all always want to make sure that every single customer we say feels like they're our only customer. Right now we have about 80 agents. We'll do anywhere from six 50 to seven 50 transactions this year. And we're really big on giving back into the community today. Actually Ethan, I have to share because it's one of my favorite days inside of the organization, it is our 11th year doing our annual back to school drive. So we collect a thousand backpacks and we stuff them with school supplies and we pick a school has 95% of the population on free or reduced lunch and we just come to the open house and we give them away and all the kids get to pick their brand new backpack and it's just the best day inside of our organization. So today we get to stuff the backpacks as a team later this evening. So I'm very much looking forward to that.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
That's awesome. I know how important that is to your organization now, not just because you told me, but because Lori also mentioned it way back on episode two of real estate team Os she was kind enough to be one of the first people. She did that episode with me before the show was even a thing and she also mentioned how important that was to her and to the organization. I love that. So the question that you get all the time, how do I find my Camilla, which is, I'll put in other words, how do I find my ops person? So set the stage there a little bit and feel free to go any angle you want. I think we'll hit them all eventually. But when does this thought occur to me or when is it like, oh, you should have been thinking about this three months ago, six months ago or 50 transactions ago or whatever, when and kind of where am I looking to find my Camilla?

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yes, I love this question. I can talk about this question for hours.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Great. So we're going to restrict just for folks listening, you could probably see it on YouTube or in your podcast app. We're not going to go that long, but we are going to get into it. So I'd love to hear as much as has been super helpful to all the people that have engaged you on this topic.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
So I think that first you have to be clear about what you're working towards and that looks different to every single person. But if you want growth and you want to continue to achieve new levels of success, you're going to need the right people around you to be able to do that, right? We hear it all the time. No one succeeds alone and it's impossible for any one person to be great at everything. And so if you have already identified that you want growth and you want to impact a lot of lives and you haven't found your person, you should always have your eyes open and looking for this person because there's no such thing as the perfect timing. And we talk about this a lot when you find right who you make it happen because that doesn't happen every single day. And so sometimes what happens is we wait for the perfect time and then we settle and we just hire who's right in front of us because we're just hurting and we're trying.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
It's a bandaid and ultimately it doesn't work out in the longterm and it costs you more time and money. And so if you've already identified you want growth and you want to scale and you want to continue to achieve new levels of success, you should always be looking for this person if you don't have them already. And I think something that's really important is to look for who has strengths and things that you do not because they're all equally as important, right? Lori and I are the yin and the yang. She has strengths that I only wish I could have. Now being with her for 10 years, I've had to learn to develop them. I've been lucky enough to develop them, but at the beginning she couldn't teach me how to do operations because that wasn't her strength. So looking for someone who has strengths in an area of the business that you are lacking so that you can continue to focus on what you do best.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
And in most cases that is driving sales, driving production, being that leader and finding someone that could really handle the operation side of your business. And most important, you have to be clear about the characteristics that that person has to embody for Lori, she loves people. She loves people. And so it was going to be critical that I shared that same love. I love people, I love helping people. I love helping people reach their highest potential, and that is how we really connect with one another. So you define what's important to you and what you want to achieve and what characteristics, not necessarily skills, but what characteristics you want this person to embody. Because if you're not clear on it, it's going to be really hard to identify them once they cross your path. And

Speaker 3 (13:20):
So I think that's really important. When to hire them. It's a great question. If you don't already have them and you come into this situation where you find this person that has it all, has the experience, okay, great, you're most likely going to be in a position where you're going to make it happen. You don't want to lose out if they have everything. But that's usually not the case, Ethan. And that wasn't the case with me either. I would say that when I first got into Lori's world, I did not have the operational skillset that I have today. Lori invested a lot of time and money into my success and into building my skillset that was going to benefit her and the organization. But she was very clear on why that investment would pay off was because we shared the same vision. We knew we wanted to impact people.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
We knew that we wanted to help people reach new levels of success. We shared the same core values, integrity, high levels of accountability and a lot of love. And so once she identified that and she saw something in me before I could see it in myself, and I say that all the time, would've never in a million years said I can do this. And so I always tell people that if you haven't found them, you may need to develop them. And honestly, that's what I love doing, right? Because it takes the right leader to sometimes see something in ourselves that we don't see and they help us bring out another version of ourselves that just is a win-win all around. And so maybe you have someone in your world where, sure they don't have all this operational experience, but you know that they have a skillset and a different side of the business than you do, and they fit your core values as what you're working towards and what's important to you is the same. What's important to them? Be willing to invest in that person's success.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
So I coach operation leaders all the time and it was my same experience. Once I took on this role, Lori said, okay, well I'm hiring a coach for you because I can't teach you what I don't know. I don't know how to teach you to be a director of operations, which I thought was really smart on her part of course and be aware. And so she hired a coach and I mean that was life-changing for me. I understood, okay, this is what it means. This is what I need to work towards. And then I also knew where I needed help and then what I was going to be able to be really good at. And I have a client right now where the team leader did the same thing, alright, I'm ready to grow and scale. I don't know how to teach my ops leader what to do and how to help us get there.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
So those are the really smart people that are making those types of investment in their that's going to save them time. And so I think that most people don't like to hear that answer, Ethan, that you have to develop them because it takes patience. You have to be willing to let them fail. If anyone has heard Lori ever speak, this is her biggest thing about leadership. You have to be willing to let the people in your world fail. And she's really good at that. I failed. I cost the business money multiple times. I'm not afraid to admit that now. I didn't make the same mistake twice. I always learned and I took a lot of initiative and I am still failing. That doesn't end

Speaker 1 (16:48):
If you're not. You're not trying anything new

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Or we're not being innovative enough. We are not taking enough risk. And so just of course there are calculated risk, but being in an environment where you feel safe to be able to take on those risks and try new things that could impact the business is really important. And I don't know if people understand that that's a big part of finding your right person and helping them develop.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Okay, I want to recap really quickly, make sure I didn't miss anything. You need to have a clear vision about what you want for your business. You need to be self-aware enough to know your own strengths and weaknesses, maybe even document it so that you start building this list of the types of skills and characteristics. You obviously need to be clear on your own core values and the values that you want to instill and reflect and be reflected by the team itself so that as you're going about your day, as someone who wants to grow a bigger business, you don't miss the opportunity to engage the right person in the right way. Now that right person, we are going to invest in them, we're going to develop them, they're going to come up alongside you. You're going to learn together. Frankly, Lori was learning what it means to have a great operations component to the business and a great operations leader.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
At the same time you're trying to figure out how to make that and be that. So that investment piece is key. And so we'll definitely double back into that dynamic of you need to develop something in the organization that you're not necessarily equipped to develop. But I'm going to go back to the right person. A couple of stories I've heard is it was a friend of a friend, it was a client. Your story is some go-getter who's studying in a different field is like I want some exposure to the inside of a business and explore what are some surprising places, maybe people have discovered this person and how do you know that it's the right person so that you go ahead and figure out how in the financials of the business to invest in that human being even though you maybe don't know that you're ready or feel that you're ready or you haven't accounted for it, but it's the right person. How do we know that it's the right person? And where are some places that we've seen this right person in your experience?

Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, great question. So a clients are a great source of people to want to be a part of your organization because they've experienced what it's like to work with you. So our internal database, when we're looking for another who, that's the first place we market because they already know who we are and what we see 'em for. Of course, families and friends, if you can't fire them, you shouldn't hire them.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
So if you have to have that conversation with yourself now there's great people that some people are able to have those types of relationships and really compartmentalize the personal relationship and the professional relationship. I'll tell you Lori and I, we have a personal relationship and we also have a professional relationship and we know when we're having conversations around each one, but we've built that trust over time. And so we understand that and ultimately there's people that are depending on us, so we have to keep the personal on the side when we're talking about the business. And so if you can't fire them, you shouldn't hire them. So family and friends I think could be a great resource or friends of family and friends.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
I also think that teachers, people from the hospitality background, because real estate, I have this conversation all the time in the interviews, I'll say, why do you want to get into real estate? They're like, well, I love homes and I love HGTV. And I'm like, okay, great. However, you have to be in love with helping people and knowing that you're going to be working with all these different personalities and be able to step away and say, this is whenever there's an emotional moment, which there are many emotional moments when we're buying and selling the largest asset we most likely ever will in our lifetime, that you're able to step back and say, okay, this has nothing to do with me. It is not personal. I'm just here to help facilitate this person and help guide them and consult them and help them accomplish what they want.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
And so I think for knowing it's the right person is do they have the emotional intelligence or are they capable of working and getting to the level of emotional intelligence that you need? Because in real estate, not as an ops leader, you're going to be working with agents and with all different types of personalities and team leaders, they have very strong personalities as well. And you have to be able to understand that whenever there's an emotional moment has nothing to do with you and you don't want that to affect your day to day, if not, your life could get really hard. So I think emotional intelligence is really important. Now, to be frank, my emotional intelligence is not where it is today, where was eight years ago. So that's something that Lori had mastered. And again, that's something I really had to learn, but I understood the importance of learning it right from the very beginning.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
A lot of people do ads, they post ads, and I think that that's great. I love hiring people who have worked in small businesses because when you're working in a small business, you understand that there's probably, you're wearing many different hats and you have to be able to shift gears between ops, marketing, sales, and be okay with that being your day-to-day. So typically people that have worked in a small business understand that mindset. And I also think that going back to your question, if you don't have the right financials or you come across the right person, how do you make it happen? You have to be able to properly articulate the vision to them and first ask if they want to come along for the ride, if they want to come along for the ride and it's the right person, you typically can come up with a plan that they're okay with until you reach to a certain point where then now they're going to have a bigger upside or opportunity.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
But if someone's not bought into your vision, they're most likely not the right person. There's a lot of crazy people like me that are like, yeah, that vision sounds great. I don't know how we're going to get there, but I'm along for the ride to figure it out. And so those people are out there. However, you have to be clear about what you're working towards for people to say, yes, I'm in. I'm along for the ride. And come up with a plan on what could be a win-win. And if they're really invested and want to come along, there's a happy medium that both of you can come to that will work for both parties.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
That's great. I wanted to get a little bit into comp anyway, and we're right at the doorstep there. I know you can't say this is the salary range because there's so many variables, but talk in as much detail as you can to give guidance to someone who maybe has encountered now that they're listening, they're like, maybe she is the right person, or maybe he is the right person. And they're thinking like, okay, what is this going to take? And so what I'm assuming here is this is an organization that is small enough that they don't have a full-time ops person. Maybe they have outsourced or part-time or maybe even VA coverage in some of the zones that a director of operations will eventually take over, but they're not quite there yet. And so let's just say it's the first full-time domestic onsite. And we can get into that topic too. I have an opinion about it, I'd love to know yours, but do you include variable comp initially? When would you include some participation in upside versus just a straight salaried or hourly situation? Talk about comp to represent some of the different common situations people have found that happy solution for with the right person.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
And typically it's challenging to figure out the compensation for your first full-time hire onsite. And what I like to say is you have to be willing to invest in your business to unlock new levels of success. And if you are not prepared to do that, then you should ask yourself, is this really something that I want? However, this person also has to invest alongside with you and you'll know it's the right person if they're willing to do that. So I think initially having a salary hourly doesn't have to be significant, but it should be appropriate based off the production or the location where you live, and there shouldn't be some variable attached to it. Now, it doesn't have to be massive, but sometimes people think they have to offer these really big bonuses, and you have to remember that you just want people to have a little bit of a taste of what it's like to achieve more and to get them excited about wanting to grow more and do more and reach new levels.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
And so I'll give you an example. If you have a salary, like a quarterly or if you're working towards a unit goal, and this is really important to you and this is how you're going to be able to invest in more operational people, say, okay, if we hit this revenue, there's a small upside. Be clear about what you're working towards because then that also ensures that you're both on the same page on what's most important to the organization. So I think that also holds team leaders accountable and being transparent with operational leaders on what's the most important number inside of our company? What do I need it to be able to continue to invest in the growth of this business? And so even just having a small upside can really help that person work just a little bit harder, get excited and be rewarded once you achieve it.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
And to what you said in the initial response there, also stay focused on what matters most to the business. If the variable comp is tied to the most important thing, it will stay the most important thing.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, okay. In my experience talking with operations leaders and team leaders, in addition to reflecting on my own career, in my opinion, if I was in the seat of a Laurie reader or somebody else, I would probably look to bring on someone domestic in-house onsite to work alongside me, to work alongside any other leaders in the operation, to have face-to-face time with agents as appropriate and to really invest in and develop the culture and then layer in VAs as that person starts getting maxed out or starts earning their way into additional responsibility. And they're like, well, but I am a hard worker. I put in a lot of hours and I'm capable of a lot of things, but I'm absolutely maxed out right now, and you can see that you don't want to lose me to burnout or to the competitor down the street now that I have two years of experience. So we're going to support you maybe with some VA talent or some in-house talent, but VAs, where do they fit in this equation? In my opinion, in my observation and my experience, I would generally, if someone asked me, I would recommend find your right person, invest in them. And as they start needing some support and they've developed proven systems that are effective, bring in some VAs to support that and perhaps enhance it a little bit further. But what do you think about any of the elements I've laid out on the table there?

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, so going back to failing, about five years ago, we had the Zillow offers account, and during that time we got to over 2200 homes sold in a year. It was the best experience of my life because Zillow handed us about 264 pages and said, here, go run a business, figure it out and meet all of our metrics. And so we really had to learn how to scale up really fast. And at that time, I didn't have a lot of experience working with virtual assistants. And so I learned the hard way and now it's the best thing that could have happened to me because now we are very intentional about when we bring in someone that is us based working inside of our office. And the way that decision Ethan is, I think when you're looking for your right hand, and when I say your right hand is this person's focus and goal every single day is to drive the growth of your organization, I strongly believe it's someone that has to be alongside you, right?

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Because there is no way that I know what I know if I wasn't working sitting next to Lori for 10 years and every single day I would understand more of what was important to her, what she really wanted to accomplish, when to prioritize what. And I think that's just really hard to achieve growth with just VAs now, right now, like I told you, we'll do right around 700 transactions and we only have 10 US-based employees. And so now I have learned how to scale more efficiently and we have about five VAs and the way we ask ourselves when is it time to bring someone that's US space if it is something that a virtual assistant can do, which includes having conversations with our agents, having conversations with clients, unless they have to be physically in the office to meet with an agent for an interview or to run an event because they're the party planner, they're the marketing team, we are leveraging virtual assistants.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
And I think that if you have the right who they will know how to leverage themselves with virtual assistants and really push the boundaries. And I continue to challenge our staff and I say, do you really feel you're at full capacity? What are you still holding onto that you haven't passed on to a virtual assistant? Right? Because ops people, we're all a ton of control freaks. We think we can do it best, we want it done perfectly all of the time. And that's not always what's in the best interest of the organization. Sometimes some things just need to get done, it doesn't matter. It's not going to have an impact if it's done at a 10 or it's done at a five. And so really coaching people and giving people that space to leverage themselves so that they can focus on the higher income producing activities, which are having more client conversations, having more conversations with agents based on how do we get your business to the next level, more accountability conversations, but your operations, at least I haven't seen it yet. Being a virtual assistant I think could be very limiting.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Really good. New topic, assistant operations manager, director of operations, VP of operations, COO. I'll tell you, in my own career, I've certainly been part of situations where we maybe over titled someone because it was early stage. If someone sees those different titles and they're imagining what operations is going to look like in their business five years from now, what do you about those titles? What are some of the separations there? Some people, and you might be in this camp, some people are like, titles don't really matter. I am in the middle. They don't not matter, they're not everything, but they don't not matter. How do you think about those kind of different levels from a title and responsibility and compensation perspective? Any thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (33:04):
I'm with you, Ethan. They didn't matter as much to me, but what I learned is that they mattered to other people and that's why it should matter to you. And I think in the small business world, it could be very easy to just throw any title on, but they help give your agents clarity and your clients clarity on who they're speaking to and who to go to for what. Now, for myself and our organization, we use an accountability chart and we build out the structure of our organization and we build the boxes of this is the five core things that this person is responsible for. These are the people that report to them and what they're responsible for. And then that's how we identify the right who's, and there's a lot of transparency around that accountability chart within our organization. So people in our company know exactly who's responsible for what.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
Now in a small business, and I've seen this a lot in real estate like VPs, senior executives, like cos, when you are a team of two that could be very, you have no room to go from there, you have no way to promote people or to give people a sense of they're accomplishing or rewarding people. And so Keller Williams actually teaches top producers, top agents that you start out with an executive assistant and they're kind of managing everything and then you kind of move to that operations manager. And then as they have more people under them, it could be like your director of operations, right? Inside of our company we say, Lori's the visionary, I'm the integrator. And that's how we talk about it because it gives a lot of clarity around what my responsibilities are and what her responsibilities are. But I think that I'm in the middle, Ethan, it's hard, but they matter to other people. And I think this is part of being a leader, is understand what's important to the people that you're bringing into your organization. What do they care about and how can you find a happy media on what makes sense and what's also going to make them feel great and provide clarity. That's the most important one.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah. I also think, and this is part of the way you describe that, I also think, and I'm going to turn this into a question, that it also creates a growth path. And as you clearly define the work that needs to be done, and as this person grows into the capability of initially taking it over and then delegating it to somebody else after they've carried it a distance and improved it and made it better, and they continue their own growth, the organization, the titles and perhaps some of the compensation and some of the scope of responsibility are part of that vision that you're putting forth to them. The same way as you put forth to an agent. You came to us doing six transactions on average your past three years and you said you wanted to triple production. And look at where we are today, we're well past that.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
There's something about that growth path and the titles and maybe some compensation that go with it that go to this is the question, you invested in someone, you made them a great ops person, you helped make them a great ops person, and now they're getting calls from other brokerages and teams in the area because this is an up and comer. And these people are hard to find and a lot of people aren't willing to take a bet on that person who seems to have the right values and some of the right skills, but has no real estate experience and hasn't integrated three tools into a CRM, but this person has. So now they're getting calls. And so I think part of that shared vision and buy-in and growth path is part of what keeps someone engaged. But speak to that a little bit. I think a lot of people are afraid maybe to overinvest and really be free and letting this person become their best self because they're afraid of losing them. Now, we get very philosophical about that outside the bounds of this discussion, I think. But sticking with the operations person who's really proven herself or himself, how do we keep them engaged in retained? Is any tips there? Because I assume that everyone else that's a great performer, they attract some attention and people wanted to talk to them.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah, I'm very passionate about this topic. We have the other longest standing employee within our company. She's coming up on her nine years. We have all, I think the person who's been in our, it's a minimum of four years. Everyone else has been between four and 10. And I think why we've been so successful at retaining talent on the operational side is because I get really clear about what's important to each person because it is different for each and every single person. And Lori did this with me. She said, I want to build a world or a life or a business so big that you can achieve everything you want inside of that. And she's giving me that opportunity. I don't have to go elsewhere to go get what I want. I could do it all right here. And she's clear on what's important to me.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
And so get very clear on what's important to your operations staff because it's different for every single person. And if you don't know what's important to them, you can't deliver on that promise or continue to provide growth for them. I'll give you an example For one of our sales leader, I know that learning is very important to her. Being in environments where she can grow and she can come back inspired and build relationships is something that really inspires her on the daily fuels her. And so I'm very intentional about making sure that we're attending a certain amount of masterminds, that we're going to, certain amount of events that she's getting the exposure she needs, that she has made very clear with me so that she doesn't feel that I'm ever limiting her or that she doesn't have that support here. So Ethan, I think it's really important to get clear and also provide a roadmap for each person.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
And that roadmap is going to look a little bit different for each person. And I think people try to put everyone in a box of what they want to accomplish. And that's just, we're all human beings. We all have different things that we value and it changes what I valued 10 years ago and even seven years ago is very different than now. And so making sure that you're continuing to have those conversations with your people, understand what's going on in their life, what they value, what they want, more supported, that doesn't end, that's a continuous conversation that you're having with the people that you want to retain.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
So many important ideas in that passage there. And in my experience, that box that you described that we like to put people in, it's constructed exclusively of assumptions.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
So it's just about being in relationship with people and asking and understanding and all of that. I really love that. And again, this idea that let's create a situation where you can get everything you need and want right here because this isn't a static situation. And because you're not a static person, this isn't a static business and there's potential in all of it. This has been awesome. Before I go to my three pairs of closing questions, a few promotional plugs for folks watching and listening. One, if you enjoyed this time with Camilla, we did have a tech timber conversation on episode 77. She will also share ways that you can reach out to her, engage her directly. You can also come to unlock and meet Camilla and me. She's going to join me on a panel with a couple of team leaders on lead diversification. That's the first week in November, so not too far away. And with that, Camilla, what is your very favorite team to root for besides Lori Reer real estate or what is the best team you've been a member of besides Lori Reer real estate,

Speaker 3 (40:55):
My siblings. My siblings and I are the best team that I could ever have. It's just a different type of relationship than with your parents. And as I've gone through life and all the ups and downs that life is going to have, the people that I continue to fall back on and that continue to show up in just a different way in my life are my siblings. And we've been able to do that for one another. And it's something I feel very fortunate to have. And we always say that as long as we have each other, we'll be able to get through it all. So very, very, very, have a lot of pride amongst our relationship that we're very intentional about working on.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
That's wonderful. How many of there are you?

Speaker 3 (41:40):
There's a total five

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Of you. Okay, cool. That's great. And that is a legit team, by the way. That's a starting basketball team. What is one of your most frivolous purchases or what's a cheapskate habit you've held onto even though you probably don't need to?

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Okay. Five star hotels, I believe it's an experience when you stay at a five star hotel. It is even from the minute you check in to when they're doing your room, everything. And I just admire all of the intention that goes into making every little moment matter for the consumer. So I have a lot of keepsakes, but one thing is if I have an opportunity to really splurge on a five star hotel, I'm taking it.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Okay, cool. You answered my follow-up, which is like, is this, every time you go places, it's like, yeah, it's been a while, I need to experience

Speaker 3 (42:35):
This. Yeah, yeah. No, if it's a special trip or a special vacation. When I celebrated my 30th birthday a few years ago, I was like, okay, I want it to be member. I want to stay somewhere where every single part of it will be an experience. So no, Ethan, it is not, and it's not every vacation.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Okay. What are you doing? What does it look like when you're investing time in learning, growing and developing, or what are you doing? What does it look like when you're investing time in resting, relaxing, and recharging?

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Yes, great question. So in learning, attending events, mastermind, reading books, I am currently reading The Ride of a Lifetime by Bob Iger. I highly recommend it's such a good read and making sure that I've plugged myself in communities where I can learn from other people. That's really important to me. That's where I get a lot of my fuel, where that fills my cup. And then when I'm relaxing it is laying on the beach or doing some yoga. And just to make sure that I continue to have the endurance that I need in order to be in this business is I make sure that I'm moving my body right. Movement is medicine, and I'm very passionate about making sure that you're keeping your mind strong. If your mind is not strong, nothing else matters. And so make it a really big focus to move my body so that my mind can remain really, really, really strong.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
I love that. I share that with you and I appreciate especially your use of the word endurance there because a lot of people think about ultra-marathons or something, but getting through the day and all of the mental and emotional challenges requires physical stamina as well. And my understanding is that one day humans will look back and laugh at the idea that mind and body were ever spoken of as separate things. And I think the way you describe it, I'm sure your experience has been like mine where one can't be healthy without the other,

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Right? Right. And I heard someone say this a few years back, and they said the same way you think you have to keep your body moving so that you have physical endurance. You have to do the same thing with your mind. So you have to challenge yourself and build your mental toughness often so that you can continue to be ready for those moments. And so a lot of people laugh at challenges or all these different things, but it's the constant pursuit of challenging your mind that you can accomplish something that's really hard to do because we're all going to have hard moments in our lives and we're going to be able to get through them a little bit better if we've been practicing and building our mental endurance.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, really good call. I would also say, and I won't go on a lecture or monologue here, even though I want to be careful about your use of generative ai, I'm seeing a lot of people and reading about a lot of people and hearing about a lot of people outsourcing foundational cognitive function.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
And there's research already, even though we're in the earliest days, that people are giving away some of that musculature, so to speak, their ability to think clearly and to really have mental endurance to crank through things. So anyway, be careful. Be thoughtful. Camilla, you're awesome. I'm so glad we connected. Thank you. Investing. I feel like you and I have been seeing each other on my screen for a while. Look forward to seeing you in person at Lock, but you've been so invested in so much of the work that I'm doing, and I really, really appreciate you being so open and sharing with all of your knowledge and experience. If someone wants to reach out and engage with you, maybe they want to be coached by you or have questions about what that looks like or questions about anything we covered, where would you send people to connect?

Speaker 3 (46:19):
So you can go to my Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. I'm very active on all different social profiles. And Ethan, it has been a pleasure. I can hang out with you all the time. I'm excited that we're going to get to spend some time together at Unlock. I will be at Unlock. So if you see me, please introduce yourself. I love meeting new people and just thank you for having me be a part of your mission.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Everything Camilla mentioned is linked up right down below. I'll link up some related episodes including episode 77, which Camilla was on, and I'll link up that promo code for Unlock. If you have not got your ticket yet, 20% off with t os. Camilla, thank you again, appreciate you. Hope you have a great rest of your day.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Thanks

Speaker 2 (47:01):
For checking out this episode of Team Os. Get quick insights all the time by checking out real estate team Os on Instagram and on TikTok.